#33 - The blocked server grid - blocklist subscriptions [feature request] - friendica/friendica-directory

hoergen commented

2019-10-06 16:14:23 +02:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Since every node is maintaining a blocked server list, we could use public information on https://MyNode.tld/friendica for the directory server to present some accumulated statistics about blocked servers (and the reasons ... maybe as popup or something other you have to click a second time)

Then you can create statistics like

List of servers that are blocked on one or several friendica nodes
a. Number of friendica nodes, that are blocking this server
b. Link to the list of the names of the friendica nodes that are blocking that server
c. Blocklist of a specific friendica node
One click import of blocklists
a. If you setup a new friendica node (or just start with blocking), you could select an other friendicas block list from the directory server and import it to your node
Follow Blocklists
a. A "Follow Blocklist Function" for 1 to 3 servers. If you follow the blocklist of another friendica node (up to max 3) your friendica node checks daily for an update of that blocklist.
b. You can pause the subscription. Your blocklist followers will receive a message and the list is marked as paused.
Block following management
a. If you participate on another nodes blocklist, your node will open up a follower slot for another server. Up to 3 followers and followings.
b. You can define whitelists for your server
c. The "free slot block follower" is maintained by the directory server
d. On the /friendica page you can see your own blocks and the subscribed blocks with source url/node name nad for sure the block reason
Blocklist hoster
a. Every follower need to be confirmed by the node admin (like contact requests)
b. Every node admin can kick a blocklist follower. The kicked follower will recieve a friendica post/pm that the subscription ended .. maybe with a reason

Since every node is maintaining a blocked server list, we could use public information on `https://MyNode.tld/friendica` for the directory server to present some accumulated statistics about blocked servers (and the reasons ... maybe as popup or something other you have to click a second time) Then you can create statistics like 1. **List of servers that are blocked on one or several friendica nodes** a. Number of friendica nodes, that are blocking this server b. Link to the list of the names of the friendica nodes that are blocking that server c. Blocklist of a specific friendica node 2. **One click import of blocklists** a. If you setup a new friendica node (or just start with blocking), you could select an other friendicas block list from the directory server and import it to your node 3. **Follow Blocklists** a. A "Follow Blocklist Function" for 1 to 3 servers. If you follow the blocklist of another friendica node (up to max 3) your friendica node checks daily for an update of that blocklist. b. You can pause the subscription. Your blocklist followers will receive a message and the list is marked as paused. 4. **Block following management** a. If you participate on another nodes blocklist, your node will open up a follower slot for another server. Up to 3 followers and followings. b. You can define whitelists for your server c. The "free slot block follower" is maintained by the directory server d. On the `/friendica` page you can see your own blocks and the subscribed blocks with source url/node name nad for sure the block reason 5. **Blocklist hoster** a. Every follower need to be confirmed by the node admin (like contact requests) b. Every node admin can kick a blocklist follower. The kicked follower will recieve a friendica post/pm that the subscription ended .. maybe with a reason

AndyHee commented

2019-10-06 18:02:36 +02:00

(Migrated from github.com)

It's rather extreme all together.

Is there really a need for so much censorship?

Also point one: Wouldn't this create the perfect list of hate/nazi/whatnot nodes? Q: How do I find right-wing content in the federation? A: Just look at a Friendica directory.

Point two/three: Could someone's node get inadvertently blocked somewhere and ends up shut out of half of the federation through such an endless loop import function?

It's rather extreme all together. Is there really a need for so much censorship? Also point one: Wouldn't this create the perfect list of hate/nazi/whatnot nodes? Q: How do I find right-wing content _in the federation_? A: Just look at a Friendica directory. Point two/three: Could someone's node get inadvertently blocked somewhere and ends up shut out of half of the federation through such an endless loop import function?

annando commented

2019-10-06 19:01:35 +02:00

(Migrated from github.com)

I'm unsure about this. I'm only sure that I don't like some automatic import of blocklists, since every admin surely has it's own rules for blocking a system.

What I've been thinking about is some more "server to server" block list exchange. Means: When I do trust some admin of another Friendica server, then I could follow their blocklist.

I'm unsure about this. I'm only sure that I don't like some automatic import of blocklists, since every admin surely has it's own rules for blocking a system. What I've been thinking about is some more "server to server" block list exchange. Means: When I do trust some admin of another Friendica server, then I could follow their blocklist.

👍 1

hoergen commented

2019-10-07 00:07:35 +02:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@AndyHee

this is no cencorship, please stick to the topic.
a. point one if you don't want lists of hate speech servers, you have to shutdown the google search engine.
b. If I build up a new server I would love to have lists why and who is already blocked, so I can decide myself. It is more helpful, than getting this information by "accident" when you read at the exact time the exact forum or get the right information timed in your timeline. Getting that information has to do with a lot coincidence .
Point two/three thats the reason why i would restrict the list of blocklistfollowers to 3 and if you follow someone who is already following 3 others, you can only choose a reduced lists (3) to follow An I think there are even better ways to handle it and to prevent chained blocklists.

@annando
The import is a manual import from the directory server. Maybe not the whole list, but the list of another server would be already very helpful.

Your second thought is, what I tried to explain with the subscription. You could think of e.g. when you go on digital detox holiday and you trust another admin, so that a sudden flood of right wing servers can be blocked on your server too, so you don't have to interact, because the other admin blocked them away. After your return you can look at the latest changes of your blocklists. Or something.

@AndyHee 1. this is no cencorship, please stick to the topic. 2. a. point one if you don't want lists of hate speech servers, you have to shutdown the google search engine. b. If I build up a new server I would love to have lists why and who is already blocked, so I can decide myself. It is more helpful, than getting this information by "accident" when you read at the exact time the exact forum or get the right information timed in your timeline. Getting that information has to do with a lot coincidence . 3. Point two/three thats the reason why i would restrict the list of blocklistfollowers to 3 and if you follow someone who is already following 3 others, you can only choose a reduced lists (3) to follow An I think there are even better ways to handle it and to prevent chained blocklists. @annando The import is a manual import from the directory server. Maybe not the whole list, but the list of another server would be already very helpful. Your second thought is, what I tried to explain with the subscription. You could think of e.g. when you go on digital detox holiday and you trust another admin, so that a sudden flood of right wing servers can be blocked on your server too, so you don't have to interact, because the other admin blocked them away. After your return you can look at the latest changes of your blocklists. Or something.

AndyHee commented

2019-10-07 05:15:42 +02:00

(Migrated from github.com)

this is no cencorship

I wonder what else blocking nodes would be, if not censorship? Suppression of speech, public communication, or other information?

There are instances were blocking is needed and necessary. All I am asking (again) is there really need for such a semi-automated blocking mechanism rather than doing this on an ad hoc basis?

> this is no cencorship I wonder what else blocking nodes would be, if not censorship? Suppression of speech, public communication, or other information? There are instances were blocking is needed and necessary. All I am asking (again) is there really need for such a semi-automated blocking mechanism rather than doing this on an ad hoc basis?

hoergen commented

2019-10-07 07:14:05 +02:00

(Migrated from github.com)

@AndyHee sigh ok you like to lead this discussion very hard on a political level.

So let me ask you very clear: You never have blocked or a are blocking a single user or a server, you didn't activate one of the blocking addons (blockem/superblock) or using the buildin blocking to block people and you are willing to give people all time "free" speech regardless if it is illegal or not?

I don't want to take that risk, nor I want people publishing illegal content on my server nor I want posts coming from the fediverse passing my server showing up in timelines of users or in public on my server, where I could be sued for.

@AndyHee *sigh* ok you like to lead this discussion very hard on a political level. So let me ask you very clear: You never have blocked or a are blocking a single user or a server, you didn't activate one of the blocking addons (blockem/superblock) or using the buildin blocking to block people and you are willing to give people all time "free" speech regardless if it is illegal or not? I don't want to take that risk, nor I want people publishing illegal content on my server nor I want posts coming from the fediverse passing my server showing up in timelines of users or in public on my server, where I could be sued for.

👍 1 ❤️ 1

AndyHee commented

2019-10-07 10:34:19 +02:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Thanks @hoergen I appreciate this! ^-^

Yes, I block some individuals and some nodes. I offer the blockem and superblock addons on my node. Yes, I agree it's sometimes necessary to block people or nodes. However, I personally think twice before taking such action.

I am highly aware of the problematic nature of illegal content. My node is located in a jurisdiction were currently people serve prison sentences for having clicked a Like button on Facebook on someone's public post that contained illegal content. In effect, I am taking a higher risk by running a Friendica server than most operators

Nonetheless, I feel anything beyond a case-by-case decision making for blocking content is questionable. For example. a quick look at my node's block list shows this entry:

metacode.biz | Node spoofing Mastodon endpoints

I added this node more than a year ago, because this node operator's action interfered with my stats. I later saw this person apologised and acknowledged that they didn't fully understand the consequences of their actions and stopped the interference. To this date, no one on my node received any communication from them, despite that this person may have something interesting to say. Yes, it was my laziness -- my fault for being such a bad curator of my block lists.

Now the issue of being not good with block list only effects me (or my node's users). A list import function would aggravate this and all of a sudden I transmit this "fault" elsewhere and potentially receive other people's block list's gruft.

You may say, that the above is an outlier case. Let's take "Jo Blogs Hater"; he send sends out some right-wing extreme content and gets (rightly so) blocked on some nodes. Jo, after some time, sees the light and thinks that he was over the top and out of order. He now sends inoffensive posts and even reaches out to someone who has been bullied. It's very likely that Jo's posts --as the above example shows-- will not reach certain nodes were people got offended by his terrible deeds in the past. That's tough and so be it!

Now, I ask: Shall Jo's block be perpetuated "for ever", shall he be blocked on new nodes and be invisible to new people in the Federation, despite that Jo never offended them, despite that he is now a reformed character and a potentially valuable member of the community? What do you think?

Unless there is an overwhelming flood of content that needs to be automatically blocked because operators are inundated with having to constantly make ad hoc decisions about blocking, the disadvantages of important lists outweigh the benefits, in my opinion.

Thanks @hoergen I appreciate this! ^-^ Yes, I block some individuals and some nodes. I offer the blockem and superblock addons on my node. Yes, I agree it's sometimes necessary to block people or nodes. However, I personally think twice before taking such action. I am highly aware of the problematic nature of illegal content. My node is located in a jurisdiction were currently people serve prison sentences for having clicked a Like button on Facebook on someone's public post that contained illegal content. In effect, I am taking a higher risk by running a Friendica server than most operators Nonetheless, I feel anything beyond a case-by-case decision making for blocking content is questionable. For example. a quick look at my node's block list shows this entry: > metacode.biz | Node spoofing Mastodon endpoints I added this node more than a year ago, because this node operator's action interfered with my stats. I later saw this person apologised and acknowledged that they didn't fully understand the consequences of their actions and stopped the interference. To this date, no one on my node received any communication from them, despite that this person may have something interesting to say. Yes, it was my laziness -- my fault for being such a _bad curator of my block lists_. Now the issue of being not good with block list only effects me (or my node's users). A **list import function** would aggravate this and all of a sudden I transmit this "fault" elsewhere and potentially receive other people's block list's _gruft_. You may say, that the above is an outlier case. Let's take "Jo Blogs Hater"; he send sends out some right-wing extreme content and gets (rightly so) blocked on some nodes. Jo, after some time, sees the light and thinks that he was over the top and out of order. He now sends inoffensive posts and even reaches out to someone who has been bullied. It's very likely that Jo's posts --as the above example shows-- will not reach certain nodes were people got offended by his terrible deeds in the past. That's tough and so be it! Now, I ask: Shall Jo's block be perpetuated "for ever", shall he be blocked on new nodes and be invisible to new people in the Federation, despite that Jo never offended them, despite that he is now a reformed character and a potentially valuable member of the community? What do you think? Unless there is an **overwhelming flood** of content that needs to be automatically blocked because operators are inundated with having to constantly make ad hoc decisions about blocking, the disadvantages of important lists outweigh the benefits, in my opinion.

hoergen commented

2019-10-07 13:25:42 +02:00

(Migrated from github.com)

Ah I see your problem. you mixing up server blocks and user blocks. I was always talking about sever blocks. Nobody was talking about blocking a whole server, because there is one single fckd up a**hle sending bllsh*t into the fediverse ;)

Ah I see your problem. you mixing up server blocks and user blocks. I was always talking about sever blocks. Nobody was talking about blocking a whole server, because there is one single f*ck*d up a**h*le sending b*llsh*t into the fediverse ;)

roland commented

2022-04-25 13:10:49 +02:00

This is only valid for the Friendica repository!
My few (non-politicial) ideas:

it should be "node-to-node" and not over a central instance, like a directory is: Let the administrator choose a node that is willing to export its blocking list and see each individual blocked domain with all above said data, already blocked domains/patterns are set to disabled="disabled"
it should be opt-in for the node, to allow an export
it should be never automatic, not even semi-automatic because of false-positives being resurively blocked everywhere without consent (sorry, a bit political here)
The blocking responsible administrator (username only) should be logged and exported as well
Blocking reason goes along, too. So administrators can easily see why they think it should be blocked
the export format might be JSON, since this is being used already

This is **only** valid for the Friendica repository! My few (non-politicial) ideas: * it should be "node-to-node" and not over a central instance, like a directory is: Let the administrator choose a node that is willing to export its blocking list and see each individual blocked domain with all above said data, already blocked domains/patterns are set to `disabled="disabled"` * it should be opt-in for the node, to allow an export * it should be never automatic, not even semi-automatic because of false-positives being resurively blocked everywhere without consent (sorry, a bit political here) * The blocking responsible administrator (username only) should be logged and exported as well * Blocking reason goes along, too. So administrators can easily see why they think it should be blocked * the export format might be JSON, since this is being used already

The blocked server grid - blocklist subscriptions [feature request] #33